Young Leaders’ Live Chat:
Celebrating Indigenous Cosmosvisions
August 29th, 2010
Participants: Francisco – Argentina, Ishilta - Philippines, Anqa - Pakistan, Aynte - Somalia, Tareq – Palestine, Peter Frank Womack - US, A.O. - UAE, Jahangir – Pakistan, Sarah – US, Shakeel - India
[07:57] francisco Inty: good afternoon all and it is a pleasure. I am Francisco from Argentina.
[07:58] Sarah Talcott from California, US: wonderful to have you francisco!
[07:58] ish: hello francisco!
[07:58] Sarah Talcott from California, US: we also had Aynte from Somalia, i think he is logging back in now
[07:59] Sarah Talcott from California, US: looking forward to hearing from you, francisco, about all the celebrations this month. ishilta is also practicing indigenous traditions in the philippines
[08:00] francisco Inty: is very great Ishilta. You are indigenous too.
[08:01] Sarah Talcott from California, US: Francisco - what is the greeting in your tradition?
[08:01] ish: we will definitely connect Francisco since I am drawn to the Native American as well as Andean spirituality. My mentor's teacher is an inka priest in Peru
[08:02] ish: I am not technically indigenous since I am not part of a tribe. But we are all indigenous in essence if you come to think of it
[08:03] Aynte: Isha I agree with you
[08:03] francisco Inty: The Cosmovision is our philosophy and style of life.
[08:03] guest9618835: Peace, all. This is Peter from Ohio.
[08:04] Sarah Talcott from California, US: greetings Peter and Tareq!
[08:04] Tareq.Palestine: and hello to everyone from Palestine
[08:04] Sarah Talcott from California, US: that is a beautiful sentiment - that we are all indigenous... i think if we are able to live in a way that is in balance and respectful of the Earth, this is true
08:05] francisco Inty: In this times we are rebuilding it, because the young people in the city forgot it.
[08:05] Sarah Talcott from California, US: yes, we need to learn the old ways again - all of us - i think
[08:06] Sarah Talcott from California, US: I am curious to know if others on the chat - in addition to Ish and Francisco - have contact with Indigenous people, or what it is that brings you in particular to this chat...
[08:06] Anqa (Pakistan): hello all
[08:06] Sarah Talcott from California, US: greetings, Anqa! glad you coudl make it...
[08:06] Peter Frank Womack: besides having a strong empathy for indigenous people (particularly in US), I am part Seminole.
[08:07] Sarah Talcott from California, US: beautiful...
[08:07] ish: wonderful!
[08:07] Sarah Talcott from California, US: Francisco, can you help start us off by sharing a little bit about your people - the Aymara?
[08:08] francisco Inty: My intention for this live chat is the reflection about how it is possible to live with the Cosmovision in these new times.
[08:08] Tareq.Palestine: Look Sarah what already interested me to come here today my understanding of the rights of indigenous people
[08:08] ish: Like you Francisco, I have a CC-in-the making (waiting for approval) called Medicine for Gaia CC
[08:08] Tareq.Palestine: as I live here in Palestine under occupation and Palestinian people are like indigenous people
08:08] Tareq.Palestine: whose land were taken by Israel and we cant access it
[08:08] Tareq.Palestine: it is the same
[08:08] francisco Inty: There are a lot indigenous in the Uri global youth
[08:09] Tareq.Palestine: sure, in all URI as well
[08:09] Sarah Talcott from California, US: please tell us more - francisco - how can we live with the cosmovision in the new times?
[08:10] Sarah Talcott from California, US: (thank you all for sharing your interest - it is good to connect)
[08:11] francisco Inty: In particular, I think that is possible to reinterpret the Cosmovision for the young people
[08:11] francisco Inty: but the problem is that some indigenous think that is not good
[08:11] Peter Frank Womack: what is your Cosmovision?
[08:12] ish: What do you mean by reinterpreting the cosmovision?
[08:12] francisco Inty: in my community they think that is the only way to conserve the indigenous Cosmovision, The Mather Earth
[08:13] Sarah Talcott from California, US: Francisco - maybe you can share a little more about what your cosmovision is - what are the principles or practices?
[08:13] francisco Inty: Excuse me for the delay but i speak in spanish
[08:14] francisco Inty: The main cermonies are the PACHAMAMA, in August
[08:14] Sarah Talcott from California, US: that's okay, if you want me to translate i can as well
[08:15] francisco Inty: la pachamama no solamente es una ceremonia
[08:16] francisco Inty: is an old concept for our comunity
[08:16] Sarah Talcott from California, US: translation - the pachamama is not only a ceremony
[08:16] francisco Inty: The Pachamama is related to the old name of our indigenous Estate
[08:17] Sarah Talcott from California, US: what is the meaning of Pachamama?
[08:17] Sarah Talcott from California, US: que significa?
[08:18] francisco Inty: In the Incas , Mayas and Aztecas, America was called Tawa_inty _Suyo
[08:18] francisco Inty: Significa las cuatro regiones alrededor del Sol
[08:19] francisco Inty: The four regions around the Sun
[08:19] Sarah Talcott from California, US: It means the 4 regions around the sun
[08:19] francisco Inty: It means, COSMIC COMUNITY, yes
[08:20] Sarah Talcott from California, US: in other words, it extends beyond Mother Earth to other regions of the universe we inhabit?
[08:20] francisco Inty: our philosophy says that I AM IN HARMONY WITH THE COSMOS. Yes
[08:21] Sarah Talcott from California, US: and how do we live in harmony - according to this cosmovision?
[08:21] francisco Inty: I think that in other indigenous cultures, they have similar thoughts
[08:21] Sarah Talcott from California, US: yes, also the achuar people in ecuador... they refer to Pachamama as meaning the Earth, the sky and all of time and space
[08:23] francisco Inty: yes, The Indigenous Cosmovision is the structure of the thought in all the indigenous in America
[08:23] francisco Inty: The different expressions are dependent on the diverse culturs
[08:24] Sarah Talcott from California, US: Ish - is this similar to what you have learned? and Peter, what about the Seminole? what are some key teachings of your people?
[08:26] francisco Inty: Nosotros tenemos una leyenda ancestral que actualmente Evo Morales la lleva adelante
[08:26] Sarah Talcott from California, US: (translation)We have an ancestral legend that Evo Morales brought forward
[08:27] francisco Inty: la Leyenda del Condor y el Aguila
[08:27] Sarah Talcott from California, US: The legend of the condor and the eagle
[08:28] ish: exactly it is!
[08:28] francisco Inty: Esta leyenda fue contada por nuestros mayores
[08:28] Sarah Talcott from California, US: translation - The legend was told by our elders
[08:28] francisco Inty: y cuenta que llegara el dia en que los pueblos
[08:29] francisco Inty: del Agula y el Condor se uniran
[08:29] Sarah Talcott from California, US: translation - and tells of the day that one day would arrive in the villages
[08:29] francisco Inty: y nuestra tierra volvera a ser una tierra de paz
[08:29] Sarah Talcott from California, US: when the Eagle and the Condor will reunite
[08:29] Sarah Talcott from California, US: and our earth will return to be a land of peace
[08:30] francisco Inty: We believe in it
[08:30] Peter Frank Womack: I am hesitant to speak on behalf of Seminoles, more info can be found at www.seminoletribe.com...
[08:30] Sarah Talcott from California, US: i do, too...
[08:30] A.O.1: Hello everybody!
[08:30] Sarah Talcott from California, US: welcome, all! francisco was just telling us the legend of his people of the eagle and the condor
[08:31] Peter Frank Womack: Many Seminole converted to Christianity but keep traditional cultural practices
[08:31] Anqa (Pakista): hello
[08:31] Peter Frank Womack: one thing i remember my father telling me is how his father knew which plants to pick for healing...
[08:31] Sarah Talcott from California, US: yes francisco, please tell us the significance of the eagle and condor? does it refer to groups of people?
[08:32] francisco Inty: The condor people was all the people that live in north America
[08:32] Sarah Talcott from California, US: yes, Peter, that is powerful knowledge that we need to access again
[08:32] Peter Frank Womack: there is a strong connection between people and the Earth.
[08:32] francisco Inty: Excuse me, Eagle refers to the people in the North and Condor to the people in the south
[08:33] Sarah Talcott from California, US: is there a time when this will happen - cuando el condor y el aguila uniran?
[08:33] Sarah Talcott from California, US: according to your people?
[08:33] Peter Frank Womack: that is an interesting connection between the two continents.
[08:33] francisco Inty: all the people who are living now in the Continent are part of it
[08:34] Peter Frank Womack: i was unaware of a transcontinental indigenous consciousness before the Europeans
[08:34] francisco Inty: yes
[08:34] francisco Inty: but now everyone is part of it
[08:35] Sarah Talcott from California, US: Francisco - hay un tiempo, una epoca, cuando tu gente cree que la leyenda va a ocurrir, cuando el aguila y el condor van a unir?
[08:35] francisco Inty: For the young people it is very important to learn about the old people
[08:36] ish: i second the motion
[08:36] Sarah Talcott from California, US: i was asking francisco if there is a time period when this will happen - when the condor and eagle will be reunited
[08:36] francisco Inty: they have the knowledge – the old people
[08:37] Sarah Talcott from California, US: yes, how are you connecting the young people with the old through your Cosmic Community CC?
[08:37] francisco Inty: of when the Cosmovision will live again
[08:38] francisco Inty: For this I think that the reinterpretation [of the cosmovision] is very important
[08:39] Sarah Talcott from California, US: yes, francisco...
[08:39] Anqa (Pakistan): Here in our society indigenous people are not given much rights
[08:39] Sarah Talcott from California, US: what do others think about this topic? what do we need to learn about living in harmony with each other and the Earth?
[08:39] A.O.1: I would like to ask if there is a significance of the 'medicine wheel' in your tradition?
[08:40] Peter Frank Womack: i think one of the major challenges has been the Western mindset...
[08:40] Peter Frank Womack: we have talked about developing and developed nations...
[08:40] Aynte: Sarah: What do I think about this idea, I think it’s the best way to live and preserve on the earth
[08:41] Peter Frank Womack: as if indigenous and agriculturist communities have to transform into modern entities
[08:41] A.O.1: i would like to share with you all an experience i had in austria
[08:41] A.O.1: i was for one week in a camp called native spirit
[08:41] Peter Frank Womack: what has happened has been that modern entities have lost touch with the Earth...
[08:42] A.O.1: there was this beautiful song that we sang together
[08:42] Peter Frank Womack: it is beneficial if we look back to indigenous people for guidance on how to build society
[08:42] francisco Inty: The Plurinational State of Bolivia is the new name of the Republic today in Bolivia, it is part of our Cosmovision
[08:42] ish: I just read the book Medicine for the Earth by Sandra Ingerman, and one of the interesting points there was most of us have forgotten that we are also part of nature
[08:43] Sarah from Ca, USA: how does the song go, A.O.?
[08:43] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: yes, Ish, i agree
[08:44] ish: and this disconnection has led to disharmony - creating illness, pollution, and all sorts of maladies
[08:44] francisco Inty: Diveridad y Comunidad son elementos que actualmente son llevados a la practica por Evo. (Diversity and Community are elements that actually are brought into practice by Evo Morales).
[08:44] A.O.1: i think it is very representative of belonging to mother earth
[08:44] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: i found this today, it is the final conclusions of the Working Group of Indigenous People that met at the World Conference on Climate Change and the Rights of Mother Earth: http://pwccc.wordpress.com/2010/04/30/final-conclusions-working-group-nº7-indigenous-peoples/
[08:44] Peter Frank Womack: i agree, ish...we have to transform the way we valuate products to include environmental/social costs
[08:45] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: there is a lot of wisdom about how we need to live in it
[08:45] francisco Inty: Community is being with the Earth
[08:45] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: yes, Francisco... it is very interesting to see people finally referring to the "Rights of Mother Earth" - we have forgotten these for too long
[08:45] Peter Frank Womack: thank you for the document, Sarah
08:46] Anqa (Pakista): here in pakistan these people are facing many problems
[08:46] Peter Frank Womack: what do people think of selecting an indigenous person as Secretary General of the UN?
[08:46] ish: people are complaining of exhaustion, depression, as we move against the currents of the river of life. Our activities have been so linear that are no longer in synch with the rhythms of life
[08:46] Anqa (Pakista): they can't get settled in community well
[08:46] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: wow... that would be great
[08:47] francisco Inty: I think that the young people want the change, we can do it
[08:47] A.O.1: it would be great if it also were a woman for the 1st time!
[08:47] Jahangir (Pakistan): hi guys this is Jahangir Piara
[08:47] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: hi Jahangir! welcome...
[08:47] ish: i love the idea - rights of mother earth. She, Pachamama, is also a living being that deserves some rights!
[08:47] Peter Frank Womack: Peace, Jahangir
[08:48] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: Francisco - what are your thoughts about how indigenous people have been represented at the UN - United Nations?
[08:48] Jahangir (Pakistan): Namaste, peace thanks
[08:48] Anqa (Pakista): Salam Jahangir Sir
[08:48] A.O.1: hello jahangir
[08:48] francisco Inty: The indigenous are learning to use the political instruments
[08:48] Jahangir (Pakistan): Prety good
[08:49] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: i have heard from a number of indigenous people that they are frustrated by how long it took the UN to even open its doors to them, and then so much longer to even acknowledge them as people!
[08:49] francisco Inty: and it will be very difficult but is good
[08:50] Jahangir (Pakistan): But now they have opportunities to grow
[08:50] francisco Inty: I would like to see more indigenous in the congress, for example
[08:50] Aynte: Franciso your suggestion is very useful
[08:51] francisco Inty: is our work to get better in our country what do you think?
[08:51] ish: thanks to URI, the IPs are given a voice to be heard
[08:52] francisco Inty: it is necessary that we are feeling part of the change
[08:52] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: it would be nice to see a democratic election of representatives to the UN
[08:52] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: it seems by appointment rather than election
[08:52] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: so only those who have the power can decide
[08:52] Jahangir (Pakistan): Ish you are very right that there is an open space for iPs in URI.
[08:53] francisco Inty: Uri is part of the change.
[08:53] Peter Frank Womack: the challenge has been that representatives to the UN are exclusively selected by a member nation
[08:53] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: Francisco - have you been able to make contact with the Sami people yet from Finland? Who Heidi wanted to connect you to?
[08:53] francisco Inty: Is for me amazing to hear others indigenous
[08:54] ish: that's why I'm so grateful to have found URI!
[08:54] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: it would be amazing to see a global movement of indigenous people in uri
[08:54] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: we have connections now between latin america, north america and southeast asia...
[08:54] ish: but the UN too must meet the new challenges
[08:54] Aynte: we also need to have in Africa as well
[08:54] ish: i agree with you, Sarah!
[08:55] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: yes, Aynte... how can we connect to Indigenous peoples in Africa and Europe? Do you all have connections?
[08:55] Peter Frank Womack: perhaps there is the possibility of recognising "First Nations" as member nations in the UN
[08:55] francisco Inty: the interfaith actions is complementary with the Cosmovision
[08:55] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: wow, Peter, that is a great idea! how can we support that?
[08:56] francisco Inty: In Africa they have more indigenous too
[08:56] ish: they are after all the "First Nation"
[08:56] francisco Inty: yes
[08:56] Peter Frank Womack: i think it is a matter of giving more support to the indigenous voices already working with the UN...
[08:56] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: yes i was watching this movie the other day called "Empathic Civilization" on youtube, talking about how we all descended from 2 ancestors from Africa
[08:56] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: they can trace all our DNA back
[08:56] Peter Frank Womack: make sure that this is something that the First Nations actually want
[08:57] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: true
[08:57] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g
[08:57] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: (the link to the empathic civilization)
[08:57] Peter Frank Womack: i've seen that video too, Sarah...it was featured on Bridge Builders and PeaceNext
[08:58] Anqa (Pakista): Sarah what about native people in US.... i just read a lot about [Native Americans] and their rights.... they also have many tribes within them
[08:58] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: Peter - that is a good suggestion about giving support to those already working in the UN
[08:59] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: Anqa there are many native communities in the U.S. it is true
[08:59] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: Peter's ancestors are the Seminole, which is one Native American community
[08:59] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: Peter - do you have any good resources where Anqa can find out more about the many different native communities here in the U.S.?
[09:00] Anqa (Pakista): do they get mix with society
[09:00] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: unfortunately, many have been forced into reservations, which are now self-sufficient communities, but there are still many problems...
[09:01] Peter Frank Womack: There is an organisation called the National Congress of American Indians, http://www.ncai.org/ ...
[09:01] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: and yes, there has been plenty of mixing so there are many people who are part native american
[09:01] Anqa (Pakista): yes i saw a documentary about their own state
[09:01] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: thanks peter
[09:01] Peter Frank Womack: there is a listing of all the recognised tribes around the US territory...
[09:01] Peter Frank Womack: There is another organisation for First Nations in Canada, but i can't think of the name off hand
[09:02] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: the treatment of indigenous peoples in North America has been horrific
[09:02] francisco Inty: I remember Sage? Sarah the native from USA
[09:02] Peter Frank Womack: the native people in the US have been pushed to the background as an afterthought in the US...
[09:02] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: from stealing their lands through false treaties... to introducing alcohol, diseases, forced conversion
[09:02] Peter Frank Womack: the mere existence of indigenous people has contradicted American values and the American dream
[09:03] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: francisco - yes i have been in touch with Sage
[09:03] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: she is pursuing her music... but she is also interested in working for the rights of Indigenous peoples in North America
[09:03] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: you all should re-connect!
[09:03] francisco Inty: she is a very great person and she has very beautiful songs
[09:04] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: yes i love the song she shared from her people... it is in the background of our short film about the youth program in india
[09:04] Shakeel: Hi shakeel earnest here
[09:04] Shakeel: I have a very little knowledge about IPs
[09:04] francisco Inty: I think that is very important that the young people conserve the traditions
[09:05] ish: i love that song!
[09:05] francisco Inty: yes
[09:05] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: hello shakeel!
[09:05] Anqa (Pakista): hello shakeel how are you?
[09:05] Shakeel: I am also in favor that we should preserve traditions
[09:06] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: i found the link to the young leaders program video with Sage’s song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzjYTMlbPg
[09:06] Anqa (Pakista): yes true but too difficult
[09:06] Peter Frank Womack: how do we preserve indigenous traditions from the influence of global industrial economy?
[09:06] francisco Inty: yes but the ways are different between the country and country
[09:06] Shakeel: I think UN should work on it I mean should encourage all countries
[09:07] Anqa (Pakista): we can just do it within our territory
[09:07] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: there are some good suggestions for how to preserve and protect the traditions in the document i shared:
[09:07] Peter Frank Womack: it seems that the only way to "preserve" is to "protect" and that seems patronising
[09:07] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: http://pwccc.wordpress.com/2010/04/30/final-conclusions-working-group-nº7-indigenous-peoples/
[09:07] Anqa (Pakista): Shakeel
[09:07] ish: there's also a trap common in many IP-related ventures. While we want to showcase their culture, we don't want to fall on the trap of commodifying their culture
[09:07] Peter Frank Womack: i'll look closer at it, thanks, Sarah
[09:09] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: i think one of the main things is to support IP's rights for their ancestral lands
[09:09] francisco Inty: our House is this planet and is our lie too.
[09:10] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: dear friends, i must go very soon. i invite you all to share some closing words...
[09:11] francisco Inty: Mother Earth Rights and Human Rights it is the new way
[09:11] Aynte: it was really nice having you
[09:11] Aynte: May Allah bless his mercy on us!
[09:11] ish: I feel that part remembering our connection with nature is by honoring the wisdom of our indigenous brothers and sisters. Their wisdom will serve as a beacon guiding us to an uncertain future
[09:11] Anqa (Pakista): it is difficult to keep our traditions alive within this globe now
[09:11] francisco Inty: Thanks Sarah and all and particularly to my indigenous brothers from other countries
[09:11] Shakeel: In our country IPs dont have permanent place to reside they dont stay for a long time at one place
[09:12] Aynte: May peace prevail on URI's young leaders
[09:12] Anqa (Pakista): but we should try to promote
[09:12] ish: thank you all! Mitakuye Oyasin - I pray for all my relations!
[09:12] ish: Tupananchiskama!
[09:12] Shakeel: definitely anqa we should
[09:13] francisco Inty: que la Madre Tierra y nuestro Tata Inty los cuide.
[09:13] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: thank ou all... and francisco - thank you for sharing with us of ways to live in harmony
[09:13] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: (that Mother Earth and Tata Inty take care of you all) - translation
[09:13] Anqa (Pakista): ok thank you all.
[09:13] ish: Gracias Francisco and to all. Tupananchiskama!
[09:13] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: yes, Peter
[09:13] Anqa (Pakista): Rub Raakha
[09:13] Shakeel: ich verste das nicht
[09:14] Anqa (Pakista): Take care
[09:14] Shakeel: Good bye take care
[09:14] Peter Frank Womack: Thank you, Sarah, for convening another session. Peace to all.
[09:14] Shakeel: Thanks Sarah God bless you
[09:15] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: good day, good afternoon, good night to all... may you all be well and live well!
[09:15] Shakeel: Thanks Peter,
[09:15] Sarah Talcott from Ca, USA: peace!
[09:15] Shakeel: Have a great day
09:15] Shakeel: Peace
